I'd Rather Be Canyoneering
Geek out about the awesome sport of canyoneering! Whether your relationship with canyoneering is exciting and new or tried and true, we've got you covered. We'll be exploring a new topic each month. So come drop in with us!
I'd Rather Be Canyoneering
The SUV Analogy (Part 1): Stages in the progression of a canyoneer
Stages in the progression of a canyoneer can be a bit messy to sort out. That’s why we came up with the SUV analogy. Find out what seat in the SUV you’re currently occupying. And more importantly, imagine what seat you really want to be in!
Hey everyone. Thanks for joining us. I'm Katie
Carma:and I'm Carma and you're listening to, I'd rather be canyoneering.
Katie:We're best friends who totally geek out about canyon rigging and beautifully slot canyons. Basically we'd always rather be canyoneering. But when we can't, we spend every spare minute, we have talking about it.
Carma:This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Please seek professional instruction and practice technical skills in a controlled environment before entering slot canyons. Your safety is entirely your own responsibility.
Katie:Welcome to our canyon crew! Welcome back everyone. Today we're going to talk about the progression of a canyoneer. We want to help you see where you're at and where you can go. Something that we've learned over the years is that it's not all about the numbers. You can have done a lot of canyons, but still have beginner skills. And you could be fairly new on your numbers of canyons that you've completed, but have really studied the skills to bring you up to the next level. We spent a lot of time on this topic, trying to tease out what skills belong where. And it's not always clear where somebody fits in on the beginner to advanced levels. So we wanted to help you figure out what are the critical skills that you might be missing in some categories so that you can move forward.
Carma:It takes time to build up experience and a frame of reference in canyoneering. So having that time in the canyon helps you to see how the things that you learned, like theoretically, how they actually play out in real life. And you need that understanding to be able to interpret beta, to plan a canyon, and then to go and execute the run through successfully. So one of the things we love about canyoneering is that there is always more to learn, no matter where you are. And we've also seen, as we've kind of evaluated ourselves, that experience level is all relative to the group you are currently talking to. So you may be the most experienced canyoneer in your circle, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're an expert canyoneer. So when we were in college, we thought we were like intermediate canyoneers having done 12 canyons because most of our friends had only done one or two Our eyes were opened as we started attending rendezvous, and we met people who had done a hundred canyons, and then we met people who had led a hundred canyons, and then people who had led over a hundred unique canyons all over the world. So all of a sudden, our little, frame of reference expanded, and we saw where we were more in the global canyoneering community. As opposed to just our close friends. And that really changed our perspective of, where we wanted to go with our skills. We could see the avenues of where, where we could end up. And that's kind of what we want to share with you. You know, the new year is starting and we want to have canyon goals, right? So what is it that you want to do this year to progress in your canyoneering journey?
Katie:As we were talking about this, we started trying to just dial in where our friends were as canyoneers, as we were trying to invite them on trips and figure out how we could help, especially other women to bring up their canyon levels. We were trying to tease out what was missing and where people were and what kind of a team we wanted to put together for different goals with different trips we were doing. Something that I thought about a lot and finally came up with this idea is when we're thinking about a group of canyoneers and where somebody is on their canyoneering journey is to Imagine a family of five canyoneers getting into an SUV. There's a driver, a co pilot, and three spots in the back. Let's say that that back seat is full. So you've got one middle schooler who's pretty self sufficient, one elementary schooler in a booster seat, and then one little baby in an infant seat. With the parents up front, everybody's got their spot and The driver's ultimately responsible for the safety of the entire canyoneering family. As we're thinking about this SUV analogy, this system is to help us realize where we are In a sport. So for canyoneering, I'm going to give you a lot of very specific information here, but I also look at this analogy when I'm going on other adventures. I may be a driver in a canyoneering adventure, and I might be in the infant car seat or a booster seat in a rafting trip, so as we're all adventurers and we love to get in the outdoors, it's okay to be the novice, it's okay to be in the booster seat or the baby seat, all of that's fine, it just helps us to realize where we're at on any given trip so that we can assess ourselves personally and see what kind of things we can focus on during that trip to make it the best trip for
Carma:Right. And every seat contributes to the trip. Everyone has a part.
Katie:Exactly. Let's start out with those canyoneering team role descriptions from least responsibility up to most responsibility. So let's start with that infant car seat. This is a novice. This person is along for the ride. They're excited to come, but dependent on others. They need somebody to buckle them in, pack their bag for them and are always supervised. So, this is your first few canyons. Everything's new to you, you're bright eyed and bushy tailed, and you follow your friends because they told you it would be fun. You need someone else to pack your bag. You don't really have any of your own personal gear yet, you're trying out the sport, and you aren't completely invested. You need help to get your harness on properly, or double check it, or to learn the difference between the auto lockers and the ones that need to be doubled back. You need help to rig your repel device every time. You probably need a lot of coaching and encouragement for rappelling, downclimbing, etc. because you haven't learned how to maneuver your body in this new environment yet. You should be rappelling on releasable rigging and have a top belay or bottom belay as a backup on every rappel because you're brand spanking new and you don't know if you're gonna freeze or flip upside down or let go with your brake hand because you haven't faced this type of vertical terrain before. Every single canyoneer started in this baby car seat. Some of them just did it in another rope heavy sport like climbing or caving or mountaineering. Nobody starts in the driver's seat. It's a totally normal part of the progression, and you want to be a good friend. If you have someone who's in the baby seat, you need to be there encouraging them, excited for them, asking them how they learn, and really supporting them in the way that they need.
Carma:Yeah. And it's a really fun seat to be in, actually. When I start a new sport I love part, like when everything is new and fresh and you're just picking up skills like crazy. It's exciting.
Katie:It really is. And I, I actually just experienced this like two days ago. I work in adaptive sports with Wasatch Adaptive Sports. And we were out at Snowbird Ski Resort. And I was learning how to use a mono ski. For that, it's a sit ski, you sit down in it, and I did not know where any of the straps went, you know, we've got straps to hold you in, and straps in case you need to do an evacuation off of a chairlift, and I literally had a coworker of mine strapping me in, in this novice position, and it's okay to tell people that you're in that space so that you can learn the basics really well.
Carma:I actually like that because literally somebody else was strapping you into your device because you didn't know
Katie:Right. And then she was following behind me and making sure I didn't tip over and break an arm. And probably I wouldn't have tipped over and broke an arm or anything. It's just, you know, super mellow. But there was a friend spotting me. That's the equivalent of a bottom belay.
Carma:Yeah, and When you're taking friends out who are in that category, you want them to have a good time, right? You want them to come back again and join your canyon team And so you're gonna do all those extra things to help them succeed in their first outings. After the infant car seat phase is the booster seat phase. This is a beginner canyoneer. So this is like Katie's second grader, right? She can buckle herself in. She can carry her own backpack, but someone still needs to make sure she has her mittens and her homework and that she gets out the door on time. She still needs a fair amount of support. When you're in the booster seat position, you can put on your own harness, You can rig your own rappel device and know how to add friction on the fly. And when your leads double check you, it's usually correct. You can go down straightforward rappels and simple downclimbs without coaching at this point, but you still like seeing examples of how to do awkward starts and when the downclimbs get tricky, it's nice if you can watch somebody else go first. You are picking up more and more skills and you're catching the canyon bug. You're not a baby anymore, but you're still gaining perspective. You still need someone to help you pack your backpack, someone to tell you whether or not you're going to need a wetsuit, and someone to help you start the canyon on time so that you can get home by dark. And you've learned to bag rope and volunteer to carry the rope, or at least bring really great snacks to share so that you keep getting invited back.
Katie:My second grader loves to share her snacks. It's not the only reason I bring her.
Carma:Doesn't hurt though
Katie:no, it doesn't. then we move on to that backseat passenger, and there are going to be a lot of people who stay in this position for a long time. We call them an advanced beginner, but this backseat passenger is like a middle schooler who can buckle themselves in, pack their own backpack, contribute to group projects, and the only difference is they still rely on others to make the assignments. This person in the canyon world can take care of themselves on rope and can even help others out a little bit. But they're still relying on the leaders to assign the packing list, take care of reading the beta, navigation, rigging, seasonal variations, annual variations of water levels, all of those things they're still leaving to the leaders. This person would consider themselves a canyoneer. They've invested significant time and money into the hobby. And it's because they freaking love it. Not only do they pack their own backpacks, have all their own gear, they also contribute to the group gear when the leader assigns stuff out. They can lock off their device, operate a third hands or hands free backup, and are learning how to self rescue. They provide fireman belays for others, can do partner assists, they may still need someone to go first on a tricky spot but they have enough experience to navigate most of the obstacles themselves. Someone in this backseat role is learning the rules of the road by observation. It takes time to build up that experience in the frame of reference. It also takes time to acquire the gear and to be able to practice with it and maybe acquire multiple descenders and decide what they like best. they help watch over the booster seat kids and the baby seat members. They've already started learning about anchors, rigging, ropes, pulls. They're able to assist the front seat members in keeping the group moving safely.
Carma:A general recommendation we have for backseat team members is that until you know how to self rescue, it's a good idea for your leaders to be rigging releasable. That way, if you run into your first big problem on rappel, your leaders have a quick way to solve that problem.
Katie:So for example, after a hundred canyons and a thousand rock climbs. I've had a problem on two rappels. I have gotten my hair stuck once back when I was in college. And I got my hand trapped under the rope once. I had to learn how to solve it on my own. I had to just take that moment and fix it myself. It would have been a lot nicer if I could have been lowered and, um, never made that mistake again, but those, do come up sometimes.
Carma:Yeah. And I would say the likelihood of it coming up is higher when you're newer in the sport. Because as you've done, you know, more and more repels, you've seen how to avoid having that happen. Or you've also seen other people have one of those things happens. Like I feel like we're constantly telling our friends, like, don't trap your hand, you know, that kind of a thing just because we've already seen it happen.
Katie:Because you don't have the fear of God put in you yet to avoid them?
Carma:ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Katie:Until you've seen somebody struggle with it, At some point it is going to become a very memorable moment, whether it was you or a friend in the group where you're like, yeah, I'm never going to let that happen to me.
Carma:Yeah. Ha Ha ha Right?
Katie:Or You figure out why it happens, you know, like realizing how, that if you have an extended repel, everything's moving much higher, closer to your face and your hair, or realizing that, oh, the place where people trap their hands is when they go over a shelf. And it happens all the time because your body balance sets you up to probably trap your hand, unless you consciously move it around to the top. but until those start to come a second nature, until you've seen it and know why it's happening, then you aren't consciously avoiding it as well as you will be after you have those canyon miles.
Carma:The next seat in the SUV is the co pilot and this is what we would consider the intermediate canyoneer. Just like on a road trip, the co pilot helps the driver read the maps, watch the hazards on the road, and check for bad weather coming up. The co pilot helps take care of everybody else in the backseat. You, at this point, are really assisting the driver. You've more than just glanced through the route description. You have looked for points of trouble like falls, stuck ropes, core shots, and you're actively working to mitigate those risks through hand lines, good pull techniques, creep in the rope, and belays for other team members. So when you're at this point, You're not only bringing your own gear, and contributing to group gear, but you're able to read the beta and help determine what gear is needed for each specific canyon. you are able to rig most rappels on your own. And when someone double checks you, there are no critical errors, just maybe some nuances you could improve for the rope pull, or something along those lines. You help the driver interpret the maps. You're checking the weather. You're competent with a few different rappel devices and know how to lock them off mid rappel. You perform buddy checks where you assist others in gearing up and rigging their rappel devices correctly. You inspect anchors, build basic anchors, And when your leader double checks you, there are no critical errors. So they're going to trust you if you say the webbing looks good, because you've actually inspected it all the way around that boulder or whatever. You also have a better understanding of the bigger picture of the canyon and how to set the pace so that you make sure your team stays on track because you've seen, the reasoning behind why you need to keep the pace going because you've probably been in a canyon after dark and it wasn't a super lot of fun. You may be reading beta now that says that the trickiest, hardest rappel is at the end of the canyon. And that's how it was in Ice Cube, where the whole group knew, set the pace because we do not want to be rigging that in the dark. It hangs off over the edge of a 200 foot drop and you've got to kind of stem out to the anchor. We don't want to be rigging that in the dark. So everyone knew. When we say 10 minute lunch, we mean 10 minute lunch. You know, and keep yeah, definitely. In the copilot seat, you go down first or last, depending on the type of canyon. So in the desert, a co lead often goes down first, because they can troubleshoot problems on rappel, and they understand the rigging to be able to tell the leader if something needs to be adjusted.
Katie:And in an aquatic canyon, the co lead might be at the top. If they're really good at doing mechanical advantage and lowering, if they need to, the leader might go down first through the hairy gnarly stuff and that co pilot might be the one who's setting the rope length from the top and doing what's asked of them by the person who can see what's going on.
Carma:As a co pilot, you have experience with tricky obstacles but the buck doesn't stop with you. There is still someone more experienced than you driving the vehicle and taking responsibility for the team, but you are sharing the load with them and you're on deck to take the lead. If needed. So when you're at this point, you take ownership of each trip that you go on. You don't want to just follow the directions of some other leader. You want to understand the reasoning behind the driver's decisions. And you've spent time out of the canyon researching, studying, and developing your own canyon skills.
Katie:And I don't think anybody falls into this position. This is something you have to actively work for. And in a lot of canyon teams, unless someone asks to rig a rappel, no one's going to put that on you. So this is a point where, just like in rock climbing, you have to ask to take the lead and jump in. In canyoning, you have to ask to take the lead on rigging and say, hey, can I rig that one? And ask somebody to double check you
Carma:Yeah, and like Gordie said in our last episode, this is a point where you really want a mentor. a mentor who's going to, actively be teaching you and helping you to progress in your skills.
Katie:The last position we want to talk about is the driver. And this is the expert. This is the crazy friend who owns the car and through all their enthusiastic leadership takes everyone along for the ride. This person assumes responsibility and safety for everyone in the car with them. And their evaluation of the weather, the destination, the team, is all going to drive the critical choices along the way. So, as listed in the name, the driver often drives the momentum for the trip. This is the person who's scouring the internet day and night, reading up on canyons and where would be awesome to go and what time of year you're supposed to go there. This is oftentimes the person who throws out the trip plan and is inviting everyone else. People are often drawn to this person because they're passionate about canyoneering and they trust them to keep them safe. This person has enough canyon experience that when they read a route description they know not only whether or not they will be able to safely complete the canyon, but they also know and can interpret that for the rest of the team members. If everyone who they're inviting will be able to get down safely with their help. This is the person who has so much gear that they're loaning it out so that people in the back seat have a chance to come along for the ride. They're filling in the gaps by beg borrowing or stealing all the gear to make sure this happens. When this person approaches a rappel, they can visualize the potential problems and solutions for each of the members in their team. They understand the whole process from start to finish, and they've tested their theories on hundreds of rappels and rigging that other people have checked. They're confident and comfortable going first or last on any rappel in the canyon and they can switch things up when they need to. They have significant outdoor leadership experience in a canyon so that they can assess conditions and obstacles for each individual team member and maybe even some of those emotional issues that might come up that they know that being in a long narrow canyon for a while might affect some people or that They've dealt with frustration with somebody and can help someone navigate that so that they don't lose it mid canyon. They're trained in wilderness first aid, rescue scenarios. They're the ones who carry a satellite communicator and know its limitations. Know that it's not just gonna work everywhere. And they can clearly see The road and mitigate dangers that might pop up along the way. This is the person who we all aspire to be as canyoneers, and we're all on the journey to not only be able to check all these boxes for beginner canyons, but then intermediate canyons and advanced canyons. So we're always on the journey.
Carma:Yeah. And nobody starts out in that driver's seat. Everybody's process and timeline for getting there is very different. And you don't want to be thrown straight into the driver's seat too quickly because it's dangerous. That was something, again, that, Gordy talked about. Having beginner people leading other beginners down canyons is dangerous. It has caused many injuries. It has also caused deaths. So you don't want to be in the driver's seat too early.
Katie:Yeah.
Carma:Positions in the car are fluid. I think Katie mentioned this earlier. On a different trip, you're going to be in a different position in the car, in the canyon. You might be a driver on your home turf, but in a new area, you're in the back seat, where you get to, learn and observe a little bit more and not be in charge. Or sometimes Katie has had my back before when I wanted to come on a canyon and my life was just like totally crazy and my kids were sick and I'm like, I have no brain space to plan this canyon honestly, because my life is nuts, but we have each other's backs and take turns with some of those responsibilities so that we can all get into canyons more as busy humans and busy parents. So,
Katie:I'm like, hey, I already got, two drivers, you know, Shars coming, I've got somebody, I've got two drivers, you can be a passenger, that's okay. And, you know, my first Aquatic Canyon, I was like, yeah, show me what's different. Show me what mistake I don't want to make, like, totally open to learning.
Carma:Actually, like, some people will stay in the backseat as canyoneers for a long time. And it's probably because it's not their primary sport. They're a driver in another sport. Maybe they're a driver on rafting trips. Maybe they're the one leading their mountain biking group. we have Several friends that they aren't the drivers in canyons, but we're their passengers in other situations. And so it's awesome
Katie:I love
Carma:right?
Katie:Honestly, I cannot afford all the gear for all the sports that I would love to be a driver in. And so our friend group kind of has specialties and we kind of lean on some people to do the rafting trips and some people to do the canyon trips and some people to put together the back country ski trips because we're finding a way to share those seats so that there's always enough drivers and co pilots so that we can all go out safely and enjoy way more recreation than we'd be able to otherwise.
Carma:Hey, Canyon Crew, we need your help to grow the show. If you learned something valuable from this episode, please share it with a friend. You can also help more amazing canyoneers find the show by giving us a rating and review on your favorite podcast listening app. Lastly, if you'd like to fund our quest for great canyoneering content, click on the support the show button in the show notes As always, thanks for dropping in with us. We'll catch you on the rap side.
